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	<title>Comments on: The fundamentalist defence of Chomsky on Bosnia</title>
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	<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/</link>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-3120</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-3120</guid>
		<description>As far as the wire issue is concerned, the prisoners were contained, even if their compound was not completely enclosed by the barbed wire.

As Ed Vulliamy subsequently observed &quot; I now know the compound in which these terrified men were held captive to have been surrounded on one side by recently reinforced barbed wire, on two sides by a chain-link fence patrolled by menacing armed thugs and on a fourth side by a wall. But so what? This was a camp — I would say a concentration camp — and they were its inmates.&quot;

And as Dr Merdzanic said giving evidence to the Milomir Stakic trial in reply to the question &quot;What prevented people from leaving Trnopolje the camp? You said men were no longer allowed to leave unless their name was on a list.&quot;,&quot;Guards were posted around Trnopolje, all around Trnopolje. There were guard posts, and then there was this fence. One could easily jump over that fence, however. But apart from the checkpoints and the guards, even if only a simple line had been drawn on the ground, nobody would dare cross that line.&quot;

Watching both the Judgment and the ITN footages, looking beyond the ITN crew along the line of the fence and observing the way prisoners are lined up along it, the impression is not one of refugees walking around as they choose or that of a crowd clustered around the point at which something interesting is happening.  These are people lined up along a fence that contains them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as the wire issue is concerned, the prisoners were contained, even if their compound was not completely enclosed by the barbed wire.</p>
<p>As Ed Vulliamy subsequently observed &#8221; I now know the compound in which these terrified men were held captive to have been surrounded on one side by recently reinforced barbed wire, on two sides by a chain-link fence patrolled by menacing armed thugs and on a fourth side by a wall. But so what? This was a camp — I would say a concentration camp — and they were its inmates.&#8221;</p>
<p>And as Dr Merdzanic said giving evidence to the Milomir Stakic trial in reply to the question &#8220;What prevented people from leaving Trnopolje the camp? You said men were no longer allowed to leave unless their name was on a list.&#8221;,&#8221;Guards were posted around Trnopolje, all around Trnopolje. There were guard posts, and then there was this fence. One could easily jump over that fence, however. But apart from the checkpoints and the guards, even if only a simple line had been drawn on the ground, nobody would dare cross that line.&#8221;</p>
<p>Watching both the Judgment and the ITN footages, looking beyond the ITN crew along the line of the fence and observing the way prisoners are lined up along it, the impression is not one of refugees walking around as they choose or that of a crowd clustered around the point at which something interesting is happening.  These are people lined up along a fence that contains them.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-3117</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-3117</guid>
		<description>As well as the gap in the RTS crew&#039;s film at Trnopolje omitting the claimed evidence of the ITN crew manoeuvring through the &quot;hole in the broken-down fence&quot;, there are some other rather significant omissions from the RTS footage at Omarska - in the canteen the gaunt, haunted-looking inmates filmed by ITN are nowhere to be seen and the ITN film of the guards refusing them admission to the hangar is also omitted.  The comment from the inmate telling Penny Marshall that he cannot tell the truth is also missing.  Comparison of the footage in Judgment with ITN&#039;s raw and broadcast footage is a useful exercise, as you suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As well as the gap in the RTS crew&#8217;s film at Trnopolje omitting the claimed evidence of the ITN crew manoeuvring through the &#8220;hole in the broken-down fence&#8221;, there are some other rather significant omissions from the RTS footage at Omarska &#8211; in the canteen the gaunt, haunted-looking inmates filmed by ITN are nowhere to be seen and the ITN film of the guards refusing them admission to the hangar is also omitted.  The comment from the inmate telling Penny Marshall that he cannot tell the truth is also missing.  Comparison of the footage in Judgment with ITN&#8217;s raw and broadcast footage is a useful exercise, as you suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-3028</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-3028</guid>
		<description>David, thanks for your meticulous attention to detail.  I wish other notable academics were as bothered!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks for your meticulous attention to detail.  I wish other notable academics were as bothered!</p>
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		<title>By: David Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>David Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>Brian;

Yes, I&#039;m very much aware of that claim -- that &#039;the court accepted the journalists were surrounded by wire, not the prisoners...&#039; Its a false claim, and here is why. 

The libel trial against Living Marxism for running the erroneous Thomas Deichmann story on Trnopolje was a jury trial. This means all determinations of fact, and the final judgment, was reached by the unanimous decision of twelve citizens, after they had heard all the arguments, listened to the cross-examination of all parties, and seen all the evidence, including all the video. So the jury verdict is the only basis on which to make a statement about what that &#039;the Court&#039; did or did not accept. 

Nonetheless, the claim that the Court offered a view on the wire fence different from the jury verdict comes from a reading of a comment by the presiding judge, Mr Justice Morland, during the proceedings. Many people who want to continue to discredit the story of Fikret Alic and revise our understanding of Trnopolje call attention to the judge&#039;s comment. Most people wanting to make this case have relied on a BBC news story about the libel trial that contained a paraphrase of the judge’s opinion — but this BBC story was subsequently found to be misleading and unfair by the Broadcasting Standards Commission. As for the Guardian article you quote, I read that as first summarising the Deichmann/LM allegation before reporting the jury verdict, but if you wanted to read it as endorsing the judge&#039;s comment about the fence, then it is as mistaken and misleading as the BBC report the BSC ruled against. 

My 2002 articles (see links above) put everything in context and provide the detailed evidence. If you read part 1, pp. 20-21, you will see the judge’s comments quoted and discussed, and in part 1, p. 7, you will see the details of the inaccurate BBC story. The judge offered his personal view, questioning part of ITN’s account about the condition and location of the fences at Trnopolje. In the end, this was a minor and contested point that did not have any impact on the jury’s deliberation, its understanding of the camp conditions, and their unanimous decision. As a result, this false claim cannot be used to call the veracity of the Alic image and the full ITN report on Trnopolje into question. A full reading of my two articles demonstrates why that is a secure conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian;</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m very much aware of that claim &#8212; that &#8216;the court accepted the journalists were surrounded by wire, not the prisoners&#8230;&#8217; Its a false claim, and here is why. </p>
<p>The libel trial against Living Marxism for running the erroneous Thomas Deichmann story on Trnopolje was a jury trial. This means all determinations of fact, and the final judgment, was reached by the unanimous decision of twelve citizens, after they had heard all the arguments, listened to the cross-examination of all parties, and seen all the evidence, including all the video. So the jury verdict is the only basis on which to make a statement about what that &#8216;the Court&#8217; did or did not accept. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, the claim that the Court offered a view on the wire fence different from the jury verdict comes from a reading of a comment by the presiding judge, Mr Justice Morland, during the proceedings. Many people who want to continue to discredit the story of Fikret Alic and revise our understanding of Trnopolje call attention to the judge&#8217;s comment. Most people wanting to make this case have relied on a BBC news story about the libel trial that contained a paraphrase of the judge’s opinion — but this BBC story was subsequently found to be misleading and unfair by the Broadcasting Standards Commission. As for the Guardian article you quote, I read that as first summarising the Deichmann/LM allegation before reporting the jury verdict, but if you wanted to read it as endorsing the judge&#8217;s comment about the fence, then it is as mistaken and misleading as the BBC report the BSC ruled against. </p>
<p>My 2002 articles (see links above) put everything in context and provide the detailed evidence. If you read part 1, pp. 20-21, you will see the judge’s comments quoted and discussed, and in part 1, p. 7, you will see the details of the inaccurate BBC story. The judge offered his personal view, questioning part of ITN’s account about the condition and location of the fences at Trnopolje. In the end, this was a minor and contested point that did not have any impact on the jury’s deliberation, its understanding of the camp conditions, and their unanimous decision. As a result, this false claim cannot be used to call the veracity of the Alic image and the full ITN report on Trnopolje into question. A full reading of my two articles demonstrates why that is a secure conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Pocock</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-2893</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Pocock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-2893</guid>
		<description>In all the careful studies you have made were you aware that in the ITN libel case against LM the Court actually accepted that the journalists were surrounded by the wire at Trnopolje not the prisoners? This was reported by none other than Vulliamy&#039;s own newspaper The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/mar/31/medialaw.media):

[5th and 6th paragraphs extracted]
The LM article, headlined The picture that fooled the world, accused ITN of deliberately misrepresenting an image that came to symbolise the horror of the Bosnian war. It showed an emaciated Muslim, Fikret Alic, apparently caged behind barbed wire at Trnopolje camp. In fact, the wire had surrounded the ITN reporters.

Nevertheless, the jury accepted that the camp was - contrary to what LM had suggested - a prison, and therefore the ITN pictures had not misrepresented the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all the careful studies you have made were you aware that in the ITN libel case against LM the Court actually accepted that the journalists were surrounded by the wire at Trnopolje not the prisoners? This was reported by none other than Vulliamy&#8217;s own newspaper The Guardian (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/mar/31/medialaw.media" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/mar/31/medialaw.media</a>):</p>
<p>[5th and 6th paragraphs extracted]<br />
The LM article, headlined The picture that fooled the world, accused ITN of deliberately misrepresenting an image that came to symbolise the horror of the Bosnian war. It showed an emaciated Muslim, Fikret Alic, apparently caged behind barbed wire at Trnopolje camp. In fact, the wire had surrounded the ITN reporters.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, the jury accepted that the camp was &#8211; contrary to what LM had suggested &#8211; a prison, and therefore the ITN pictures had not misrepresented the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-2879</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-2879</guid>
		<description>There is method in their malevolence - focusing the attention on Trnopolje diverts attention away from Omarska and Keraterm.  Once you understand the role of Trnopolje as a component in the Prijedor camp system it becomes impossible to pretend that it was only a refugee camp or an innocuous transit centre.

Bosniaks from Kozarac were rounded and up and brought to Trnopolje.  Some were separated and taken to Omarska and Keraterm.  Prisoners from Omarska and Keraterm - where starvation was part of the inhumane conditions that caused many prisoners to lose 20 to 30 kg of body weight, some more - were brought to Trnopolje where some were killed and others shipped across the front lines in prisoner exchanges and for purposes of population transfer (hence references to the &quot;transit centre&quot; - as if this was a benign activity) .

Trnopolje may have been, as Maggie O&#039;Kane apparently wrote, &quot;the best camp to be sent to&quot;, but that designation should simply have alerted any conscientious investigator to consider what the places other people might be sent to were like.  Knightley, Herman, Peterson, Chomsky et al. have no interest in opening up the analysis to see Trnopolje in its context, either as part of the Prijedor system or even simply as the less important of the two camps covered in the ITN footage.  Herman and Peterson in their open letter even take Vulliamy to task for referring to camps in the plural rather than the one camp they want to concentrate on.

Trnopolje was, like Omarksa, scene of the Petrovdan massacre to which Daniel Toljoaga refers, and Keraterm, whose starvation regime left Fikret Alic in the emaciated condition seen in the photograph, part of a network of systematic atrocity which was similar in function and severity to the Nazi-era concentration camps, as you have carefully established.  When intelligent academics with an apparently extensive knowledge of source materials maintain that it  wasn&#039;t and pass over the existence and methods of operation of the rest of the system, one wonders why?  Cui bono?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is method in their malevolence &#8211; focusing the attention on Trnopolje diverts attention away from Omarska and Keraterm.  Once you understand the role of Trnopolje as a component in the Prijedor camp system it becomes impossible to pretend that it was only a refugee camp or an innocuous transit centre.</p>
<p>Bosniaks from Kozarac were rounded and up and brought to Trnopolje.  Some were separated and taken to Omarska and Keraterm.  Prisoners from Omarska and Keraterm &#8211; where starvation was part of the inhumane conditions that caused many prisoners to lose 20 to 30 kg of body weight, some more &#8211; were brought to Trnopolje where some were killed and others shipped across the front lines in prisoner exchanges and for purposes of population transfer (hence references to the &#8220;transit centre&#8221; &#8211; as if this was a benign activity) .</p>
<p>Trnopolje may have been, as Maggie O&#8217;Kane apparently wrote, &#8220;the best camp to be sent to&#8221;, but that designation should simply have alerted any conscientious investigator to consider what the places other people might be sent to were like.  Knightley, Herman, Peterson, Chomsky et al. have no interest in opening up the analysis to see Trnopolje in its context, either as part of the Prijedor system or even simply as the less important of the two camps covered in the ITN footage.  Herman and Peterson in their open letter even take Vulliamy to task for referring to camps in the plural rather than the one camp they want to concentrate on.</p>
<p>Trnopolje was, like Omarksa, scene of the Petrovdan massacre to which Daniel Toljoaga refers, and Keraterm, whose starvation regime left Fikret Alic in the emaciated condition seen in the photograph, part of a network of systematic atrocity which was similar in function and severity to the Nazi-era concentration camps, as you have carefully established.  When intelligent academics with an apparently extensive knowledge of source materials maintain that it  wasn&#8217;t and pass over the existence and methods of operation of the rest of the system, one wonders why?  Cui bono?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Toljaga</title>
		<link>http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/27/the-fundamentalist-defence-of-chomsky-on-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-2869</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Toljaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.david-campbell.org/?p=964#comment-2869</guid>
		<description>In his article &quot;Poison in the Well of History&quot; (March 15, 2000) Ed Vulliamy wondered: &quot;What does it take to convince people? The war ground on, the British foreign office and Living Marxism in perfect synergy over their appeasement of the Serbs while other, worse camps were revealed.&quot; 

Vulliamy also observed that &quot;The bench in The Hague issued its judgment on Trnopolje in 1997: a verdict that described the camp as infinitely worse than anything we reported - an infernal place of rape, murder and torture. Witness after witness confirmed this.&quot;

He was correct. In the Kvocka Trial Chamber Judgement, for example, &quot;One witness testified that &#039;during the night, terrible screams could be heard, moans, beatings, from practically all the rooms which served as the Omarska concentration camp&#039;”.

The Kvocka Trial Judgment confirmed that the Keraterm and Trnopolje camps functioned according to the model established by the concurrently operating Omarska camp. The pervasive brutality that took place in this concentration camp can only be explained in terms of hell on earth. The judgement confirms that people were burned alive in this camp:

&quot;Petrovdan, or St. Peter’s Day, is an orthodox religious festival that occurs on the 12th of July each year. It is customary to build bonfires on the eve of the holiday in celebration. In 1992, this tradition took on a terrifying aspect in Omarska. A huge fire was made in front of the white house from dump truck tyres. Former detainee Hase Icic described the events that followed:

&#039;At the time, the Serbs, on the eve of Petrovdan, had a real, all-out sort of manifestation rally of civilians and guards. … As night began to fall, they started to take the people out of the first rooms…
Q. What did you hear after some detainees were taken out?
A. I remember that, and I’ll remember it for the rest of my life, the cries of women who were outside or in the first room. I’ll never forget their cries and screams. Then I smelt the stench of burning meat. You know when meat begins to burn, it has a specific smell, and this smell of burning flesh was mixed with the smell of the burning rubber from the tyres.&#039;

This witness heard from other detainees that their fellow inmates had been thrown onto the
fire. This terrible incident was corroborated by Witness AM, who watched the massacre from a window. Ermin Strikovic was able to see people walking round a big fire from the small window in his detention room. He heard screams of pain, although he was not able to see the cause. Zuhra Hrnic testified that the following morning, on her way to the cafeteria, she saw a large &#039;FAP&#039; lorry fully loaded with dead bodies parked in the Omarska camp.&quot;

Daniel Toljaga
The Congress of North American Bosniaks
Board of Directors (www.bosniak.org)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his article &#8220;Poison in the Well of History&#8221; (March 15, 2000) Ed Vulliamy wondered: &#8220;What does it take to convince people? The war ground on, the British foreign office and Living Marxism in perfect synergy over their appeasement of the Serbs while other, worse camps were revealed.&#8221; </p>
<p>Vulliamy also observed that &#8220;The bench in The Hague issued its judgment on Trnopolje in 1997: a verdict that described the camp as infinitely worse than anything we reported &#8211; an infernal place of rape, murder and torture. Witness after witness confirmed this.&#8221;</p>
<p>He was correct. In the Kvocka Trial Chamber Judgement, for example, &#8220;One witness testified that &#8216;during the night, terrible screams could be heard, moans, beatings, from practically all the rooms which served as the Omarska concentration camp&#8217;”.</p>
<p>The Kvocka Trial Judgment confirmed that the Keraterm and Trnopolje camps functioned according to the model established by the concurrently operating Omarska camp. The pervasive brutality that took place in this concentration camp can only be explained in terms of hell on earth. The judgement confirms that people were burned alive in this camp:</p>
<p>&#8220;Petrovdan, or St. Peter’s Day, is an orthodox religious festival that occurs on the 12th of July each year. It is customary to build bonfires on the eve of the holiday in celebration. In 1992, this tradition took on a terrifying aspect in Omarska. A huge fire was made in front of the white house from dump truck tyres. Former detainee Hase Icic described the events that followed:</p>
<p>&#8216;At the time, the Serbs, on the eve of Petrovdan, had a real, all-out sort of manifestation rally of civilians and guards. … As night began to fall, they started to take the people out of the first rooms…<br />
Q. What did you hear after some detainees were taken out?<br />
A. I remember that, and I’ll remember it for the rest of my life, the cries of women who were outside or in the first room. I’ll never forget their cries and screams. Then I smelt the stench of burning meat. You know when meat begins to burn, it has a specific smell, and this smell of burning flesh was mixed with the smell of the burning rubber from the tyres.&#8217;</p>
<p>This witness heard from other detainees that their fellow inmates had been thrown onto the<br />
fire. This terrible incident was corroborated by Witness AM, who watched the massacre from a window. Ermin Strikovic was able to see people walking round a big fire from the small window in his detention room. He heard screams of pain, although he was not able to see the cause. Zuhra Hrnic testified that the following morning, on her way to the cafeteria, she saw a large &#8216;FAP&#8217; lorry fully loaded with dead bodies parked in the Omarska camp.&#8221;</p>
<p>Daniel Toljaga<br />
The Congress of North American Bosniaks<br />
Board of Directors (www.bosniak.org)</p>
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